The "iCall" Talkgroup
The iCall Talkgroup Project has been
shelved on DCI due to lack of interest - this is now legacy page. |
The "iCall"
(Travelers) talkgroup
was the first conceived in September of 2015 in an
effort to address the problems of traveling DMR hams to
be able to (seamlessly) make contact back home to their
local repeater(s). The current international
talkgroups are generally language specific and/or on
PTT. This does not provide the ability to be able
to "phone home" or an effective hailing
talkgroup for travelers, tourists or hams in general
wherever they are located in the world. With the
availability of a true hailing talkgroup, even those in
the same country can use the TG to make contact back to
their home repeater and then the participants can switch to
TAC 310, 311, 312, etc. in the USA, TAC 1 or other PTT talkgroups that they
may have in common around the world. Obviously, the key is the hailing
talkgroup first, then the alternative PTT talkgroup to
switch to for the conversation.
At this time, the
closest international option already in place, is TAC 1,
which is PTT on most or all c-Bridges. What is lacking is
the full time hailing channel. iCall would address
that key issue. Once contact has been made on
iCall, hams should switch to TAC 1 or other appropriate
talkgroup to continue their
conversation with no additional impact to all the iCall
repeaters which have adopted this service for the
benefit of all DMR hams. For this talkgroup to
work effectively for everyone and to minimize the
disruption to the repeaters supporting iCall, this
should be used as a hailing talkgroup ONLY, then
conversations can move to TAC 1. This policy is
already in effect on many wide area talkgroups as TAC
310 has shown. In effect, iCall and TAC 1 will
operate as a talkgroup pair, so both will be needed on
participating networks and their repeater managers.
Included below is
that that Email proposal. At this time, the
concept has met with little support among the
independent c-Bridge operators (ICBO's). But then
TAC 310 was greeted with active hostility before and
after it's introduction but ultimately has become one
the the most useful talkgroups (now with 311 and 312).
Changes have been made to address the concerns raised by
the original proposal. Those changes hopefully
will bring forward more c-Bridges to adopt the proposal.
If it does not work for your c-Bridge or your managers,
then go PTT or dump it. But why not give the
proposal a chance to work? Remember TAC 310 had a
huge hurtle being adopted but it succeeded over the
course of several years. This idea is not designed
to benefit the adopters generally but more the wider DMR
community. Maybe that is the problem; few want to
(proactively) better the environment for the larger DMR
group, unless there is something in it for them,
directly and immediately. I choose not to have
that myopic view and am willing to foster something that
holds promise to many over the few.
The initial and
primary concerns appear to center around adopting this TG
as a full time talkgroup with less to no opposition
voiced against the concept if the talkgroup is carried
as PTT. But PTT undermines the usefulness and TAC
1 is already adopted for PTT International, any
language. So more work on the FT/PTT aspect will
need to be pursued to assuage the community concerns.
The concern seems to be primarily that of a negative
traffic impact locally and dismissing or ignoring the
positive benefits more generally. The
concerns can be addressed and mitigated, hopefully to
the point that c-Bridge admins (and their repeater
owners) would be willing to try it and provide input on
any further needed mitigation.
CURRENT STATE:
-
TG is for
hailing only, conversations are to
move to TAC 1 immediately (or other talkgroup in
common between the parties). International use
would be common but some hailing within the USA is
possible if no other talkgroups are available
-
The iCall Talkgroup ID is: 8952
(TAC 1 is 8951)
-
The CC is 93
available from: icbo-2 and the secondary server is
pending until service is provided by a
TG server (minimum of 5
c-Bridges must carry iCall before it can move to a
talkgroup server)
-
Suggested iCall
settings are full time for all repeaters, either TS
is fine
-
Ideally,
iCall and TAC 1 (TAC 310, TAC 311, TAC 312, etc) should
be on the same timeslot
-
Use a very
short hold-off timer of 1 minute for iCall to further
limit potential misuse or longer conversations
on the hailing talkgroup
-
All repeater
may use an overnight mode for PTT local time if
that will address concerns
-
Short talk
timers may be used for easy break-in/turn off by
local users not in the conversation
-
Other
mitigation options as desired to increase
acceptance/adoption of TG
-
Remind users
to move to TAC 1 (or other PTT TG) if they seem to be unaware of
this need to switch
...more to follow
as it develops
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ORIGINAL EMAIL PROPOSAL, September 27,
2015 (Little interest
initially)I would
like to have the DMR community adopt an
international travelers talkgroup,
especially since TAC 310 got the MARC axe
last April. So here is a rough proposal
that I'd like to you to consider with and
for, further discussion.
I will approach the initial
proposal from the standpoint of
"re-purposing" the TAC 1 TG already on the
TG server and used relatively little. TAC 1
(8951) was created to replace the loss of
TAC 310 but never caught on like TAC 310 has
done. Certainly a new TG could be created
and there would be some value to start from
scratch for the user education value of a
start-up talkgroup.
TRAVELERS TG: This TG
would be carried fulltime on all c-Bridges
and their managers and would be used by
travelers to "phone home" while out
of their home country. It would not be used
intra-state by US hams or when their was
another TG path commonly available.
Enforcement of this use should not be of
much issue if TAC 1 were to be renamed
Travelers (or some similar distinctive
label; ET, Phone Home, yada yada). The
folks in Europe (except MARC) are behind
this approach generally and have adopted
independant intra-country TG's and have been
since TAC 310 was created. The Travelers
talkgroup would be created for the entire
world of DMR users.
BASELINE PROPOSED
IMPLEMENTATION:
-
TAC 1 to be renamed
Travelers (or similar)
-
Travelers to be carried
full time by all managers
-
Hold-off timers set
slightly longer, possibly 10 minutes
-
Limit conversations to
10 minutes to minimize impact on local
use of repeaters
-
Allow 3 or 5 seconds for
talk cycles to allow uninterested users
to PTT off the Travelers TG
-
Repeaters should
have their Group Call Hang timer set
to 1 second in this PTT world for
easier access to the time slot
-
If a repeater has
the stock 3 second hang time, then a
5 second delay in talk cycles would
need to be requested
-
Any language may be used
-
Easy use and always on
makes this truly an international
talkgroup
-
Doesn't require the
Slot3/4 approach for handling visitors
-
Destination cities
(repeaters) can choose to carry
Travelers via PTT if they feel that is a
must or to aid in its adoption
-
Hawaii, Vancouver
BC, Italy, Seattle, New York,
Switzerland etc. could take that
approach
-
Littlerock, Mazama,
Walnut Creek, Bodega Bay would be
full time as they are not considered
destinations (PTT would not be very
beneficial)
-
10 minute conversations
are reasonable middle ground for a Phone
Home conversation and minimal impact to
the local repeaters.
-
Can PTT off timer for
the Travelers TG if it does bother the
local repeaters not participating in the
conversation (10-15 minutes suggested if
needed)
-
Good will and a better
more friendly approach to DMR Ham radio
than currently exhibited by many
"groups"
-
DCI would host a web
page for educating users on the use of
the Travelers TG to aid in the proper
use and success of the Travelers TG
-
Another TG to carry
and program for (less of an issue if
TAC 1 is repurposed)
-
Full time can pose
issues if misused
-
Enforcement/education a must and
gentle reminders over the air
suggested (always the potential
to upset folks, so a gentle hand
helpful)
-
Longer hold-off
timers for managers with
priority TG's, IE: turn-off
Travelers when active if not
interested in the conversation
-
Foreign language may
be a bother to local users, again
PTT it off via timers if desired to
mitigate
-
Users need an
opening so that repeaters can PTT
out to clear the timeslot (this is
always problematic, waiting a few
seconds)
Robert (N5QM), as I don't
have the list of Emails of c-Bridge admins
that currently carry TAC 1 (or the others
who may have some interest), would you be
willing to at some point send out this or
distillation of the proposal for wider
consideration if this proposal gets that far
down the road?
While I bowed out of the
national DMR scene after tiring of the
endless and essentially fruitless efforts,
some might question why (including myself) I
am proposing another idea that will prod the
MARC machine, but I see the idea of an
international TG that will work for all hams
all over the world. That I think, is one of
the things missing from DMR and thought so
back when I created TAC 310. The big
difference though is the need for it to be
on full time. I think it is worth a try.
Worst case, if it fails, it can simply
evolve to go back to PTT TG as repeater
owners/c-Bridge admins choose. Even that
would not be a complete failure and would
still provide PTT by schedule or SMS alerts,
etc. for the traveling hams.
My thanks in advance for any
consideration.
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